This blog is designed to offer a place where people can come and discuss the REVOLUTIONARY teachings of Jesus. Post comments and reply to the different discussions! If you have questions or problems, email me at m_demateo@yahoo.com Thanks, Matt
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18 comments:
I think the mistaken identity problem with the picture on your poster wouldn't happen if the name of Jesus had been placed beneath the word revolutionary.
The Bible does command us to exhalt the name of Jesus always whether it be in word or actions.
Consider,if you would, to add the name of Jesus Christ to your posters and bulletins.
When Jesus becomes our Saviour and Lord He makes great and "revolutionary" changes in our lives!
Sign,Running the race till the end!!!
Is this "Christian Marketing Gone Wild". Come on guys what is this communicating, especially in our hispanic communities?
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa53/Anonymousepics/Chev.jpg
Would you be so kind as to tell us what it's communicating to our hispanic communities?
If you would be so kind as to go to my previous comment, copy and paste the site in your url and look at the two pictures posted there. You will see two images one being that of Che Guevara and the other image I assume is Jesus, the image we are using for this series. What is remarkable is the images are nearly identical. My question is Why dose an image that is most commonly identified with a "terrorist" have to be the same image we are using to identify our SAVIOR? T-Shirts and all!
So, why the anonymity on your comments? Just wondering.
As far as the similarity...it is used as a marketing hook, but the idea is that Jesus was way more revolutionary than Che or any other revolutionary has ever been. As we study the completely counter culture and revolutionary teachings of Jesus in Matthew 5-7 we see that.
Many people have already come to discuss the series and what it's about, merely because of the image we have used. This gives us a chance to draw people to discuss Jesus and his teachings...win win to me.
i woundn't call it "chistian marketing gone wild" more like shrewed as a snake like it says in Matt 10:16
I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd(clever or sharp according to websters dictionary) as snakes and as innocent as doves.
and what are the posters & shirts communicating? i guess it depends on your point of view and your initial thoughts that come to your mind. for me, a follower of Christ, i thought is was very clever. for someone who doesn't know our Lord probably woundn't think twice about it or that those shirts were bought at discount mall or from a vendor on 26 street from the back of his van. i'm defenitly going to buy one of those shirts for the fact that i can use it as a conversation starter.
Why the anonymity? Because it gives me the freedom to be more honest.
I don't have any problem with marketing hooks or clever schemes when they make sense. This one just doesn't. In this instance the images are too close. It is not the right marketing hook or clever strategy. I agree with Manny. Those who are believers and are in the church looking at the poster or looking at the t-shirt get it. It's Jesus. But to those who don't know Christ they won't give it a second glance. All it looks like to them is more people supporting Ernesto. Is that the message we are really trying to send them? For the very few who come in to ask a question there are many more who pass by wondering why we are supporting Che.
And secondly, of course Jesus is a better Revolutionary than Ernesto Che Guevara. He's Jesus. I think people get that. In order to do these marketing hooks and clever strategies I fear we have diminished Christ rather than exalt him. I am not speaking of the image that we gave Christ because we don't know what he looked like. But that's exactly it! We reduced Jesus to an image. The wrong image. The exact same image that the public at large associates with a failed godless rebel.
We need to stop being clever and creating "buzz" and controversy. With our little quotes, quips and images. Put some boots to the ground. I honestly can't remember the last time our church taught a hard core evangelism training program. It seems like we are more interested in getting our name out than our message.
By the way, if a name is important to you, just call me BLAGGO.
well Blaggo, I have to say that we are all entitled to our opinions. We have a right to that. That's why I have to say, that posting anonymous doesn't give you more freedom. You should be able to say what you think, how you feel, without hiding who you are. Why hide behind a screen name? but I guess that's also something you have a right to choose.
On the other hand, I can see some of your points, and why some people might get offended. I've only been a Christian for a few years, but honestly I think if I would've seen a poster like that, back in my non-Christian years, I would've been curious and probably would checked it out.
Now if you've been attending our church services, you'll be able to see (and hear) that all the sermons that are being preached, are biblical. If what they were teaching was not biblical then I would say something. But like I said you are definetely entitled to your opinions, and that's okay.
alexandra,
I have been a believer for 18 years my life.
My issue is not with the quality of the preaching nor is it with the biblical content. My issue is with our churches current marketing campaign. I felt like our marketing hooks in the past were good. GOD LOVE SEX for example was was edgy but good and taste full. The banners and mailers were top quality, GOOD JOB Nate. The Rise campaign a little obvious, but good. This campaign however is a different story. I believe we have crossed the line. We went from cool and clever to callous and indifferent.
The Che/Jesus image was originally created by the Church Advertising Network for a campaign in the UK. It was controversial there as well. CAN allows churches to use their work. We borrowed the image and put our own spin on it. You can see the original here:
http://www.churchads.org.uk/past/1999.html
Thanks, Bloggo, for taking the time to weigh in. It's good that you care. For the record, I am aware that Ernesto "Che" Guevera was a murdererous thug and little more. His legacy will continue to fade while Christ's will live on.
While the decision to use this image was a joint one and I don't want to debate the appropriateness here, I will say that I have taken your concerns to heart. Hopefully, the message will not be spoiled by the messenger for you or anyone else.
What strikes me about the Che v. Jesus images are the differences in the images. The Jesus image on our posters and shirts has no beret, a thicker mustache, longer nose, no "angry eyes", the crown of thorns... The fact is if you put the image on a green background, it wouldn't even suggest Che. He has no patent on long, unkempt looking hair. Red is revolutionary. It demands attention. The images evoke the Che comparison because of the red and the orientation of the face but the differences make clear that we are putting Jesus, not Che in the limelight (or redlight).
Give me buzz any day. Buzz opens the door to relevant conversation with people who have tuned God out. It says, "we speak to a lost culture with an understanding of the real world." Its non-cheesy and edgy and that separates it from 95% of what people associate with church. Buzz gains us a hearing with a media saturated people.
Grainger Community Church in Indiana did a great campaign called "mylamesexlife.com" for a series on sex. Awesome! Got huge buzz in the local newspapers and had the whole town wondering what the church said about their sex life. The billboards were provocative but not racy. They showed feet sticking out from a set of sheets on a bed. Did it push? Sure. But it invited attention without bringing people into sin.
We're called to compete in the marketplace for the attention of people--to compel people to see Jesus and turn to Him. There are limits--we can't sin in our pursuit of that attention. But this material does not sin and does not align itself with sin. It simply demands attention and leaves people wondering what this Revolutionary thing is all about.
Since the lines are gray rather than black and white, we'll always end up with some disagreement about such things. Know this--as a pastoral team we wrestle with such things a long time before we choose to own an idea and use it. We are not flippant in our use of images and buzz. I only wish every idea got the gut level response that this one gets.
Pastor Kev. you are totally missing the point. You can site these “differences”. The fact remains. This is a not so extreme make over of Che. You guys chose to use the image of Che. You guys chose to use the Red background. You guys chose to use the word Revolutionary. So don’t site the differences. Site what drew you to this image. The Controversy. The Buzz. That is the truth.
Contrast the two pictures. Look at the eye brows, the shadows. This not a similar picture. It IS a photo shopped picture of Che. Even the creators of the campaign call the image The "Che Guervara" poster. We have displayed a picture of Che in our churches and are calling it Christ.
You want to create “Buzz”? Stand outside your church and give out free water but do it dressed as a green banana. I know that is ridiculous and I am not trying to offend you. But I think this campaign’s mascot is equally ridiculous.
Let me be the first to speak about the actual sermons that have been taught during this series.
I have thoroughly enjoyed them. The Spirit really spoke through P.Paco on June 24th.
Calling us to face our false notions of kingdom life and to remember where we are, the kingdom is also. Great truth!
PS - Bloggo, don't mess with Kevin. He's big, strong, and can kill a lion with his bare hands!
Beth Stipp said...(sorry I don't have an account yet)
I boldly say that I can imagine Satan sitting back and grinning as we debate the appropriateness of the Che marketing hook...for weeks...and never discuss the words of Jesus Christ.
How about those semons? What are they doing to your soul? Has anyone been reading the chapters daily? I have been trying to and have experienced a lot of challenge. I was exicted to get on this blog (now that we have internet back) and see what people have been discussing and encouraging one another in. I have a sick feeling in my stomach after reading all of these comments. We are so off track. I, in fact, was a bit taken aback by the campaign although Brian loved it. But it is done. Our leaders chose to use it. If we have issue with that, then I think a polite email/discussion with the leaders is great to share your opinion. But it is incredibly sad to me that this is all we are discussing as a group. This is where we are now...how can we find Christ and receive more of Him right here where we are in the middle of this campaign whether or not we approve of some of the references.
Has anyone turned the other cheek this week...or not when you should have? Has anyone grappled with the idea of truly not worrying about ANYTHING? Have you caught yourself storing up some earthly treausres--whether physical things or even the opinions of earthly people.
I had an amazing conversation with the Jr. High girls last night about being blessed when persecuted and what it looks like in real life to love our enemies...I want to share that with all of you. I want you to be encouraged. I want to hear what you are learning as you read the words of Christ over and over.
My heart feels heavy.
I'm babbling! It is a blog, though, I suppose it's ok to babble.
Beth Stipp said...
p.s.
steve thanks for you comment. We just moved and that sermon about where we are the kingdom is has been a great encourager for me to get out and meet people on our block.
Well, I too came to this site hoping to be encouraged by the comments I may find about this series. I am truly disappointed to what I found. Please don't allow the enemy to take the place of the Word. How about discussing last week's sermon. P. Paco was not there, but the brother that took his place spoke about prayer. Maybe this is something we should do before we blog, during, and after. Just some constructive criticism.
To tell you the truth, lately I have been feeling depressed and have found it difficult to pray. I find it hard to get close to anyone at church. We are newcomers and I have not been able to get close to anyone. Unfortunately I have chosen to do that - due to past experiences, I am having a hard time trusting. I will try to pray about this situation, but I have even felt discouraged with God. WHAT DO I DO???
Great work.
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